33. The Prop 400 Effect
In this Storylines episode, hosts Brittany and Juliana explore the history of transportation in the Valley with Martin Shultz, the original chairman of Proposition 400. Discover how Maricopa County transformed from a region without freeways or light rail into the extensive transportation network we know today.
Transcript
Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes of your daily commute?
Juliana:Or how transportation impacts the community you call home?
Brittany:Maybe you want to explore outside your community and don't know where to start.
Juliana:Well, you're in luck because this is where you hop on.
Brittany:I'm Brittany Hoffman.
Juliana:And I'm Juliana Vazquez-Keating,
Brittany:We work in communications for Valley Metro. And together, we'll discover all the ways that public transit enhances lives across the cities we serve.
Juliana:and we might even make some new friends along the way.
Brittany:Welcome to Storylines.
Brittany:
Juliana, do you know how buses and trains are funded in the Valley?
Juliana:You know, I know a little bit about it, but there's someone who may know even more than I do.
Brittany:Oh yeah. Prop 400 came to be before you and I could even vote. So, let's talk to someone who was on the ground floor of making it all happen.
Martin:
Martin Lowell Schultz, original chairman of Proposition 400, the transportation proposition.
Juliana:Marty, you've seen the Valley grow and transit options expand over the past 40 years. What was the first attempt at getting a transit initiative passed in Maricopa County?
Martin:Well, I think we have to start with the fact that when Burton Barr, a majority leader and myself representing, business interest and a number of other people, some elected officials, some business people, looked at our county, 40 some years ago, we did not have any freeways. We did not have light rail. And when I say we didn't have freeways, that's hard for people to understand, but the truth is, I-10, which we have, did not even go through Phoenix. There was a big hole between I-10 on the west side and then I-10 on the east side. Because of the challenge of getting it through Phoenix and freeways that people know about like I-17, they were not freeways. They were highways that one happened to be called the Black Canyon Highway. And I could reel off all the things we have now, but we had nothing. So that's where we started. And clearly, with the population growths that we had, plus the population projections that we were about to enjoy, or at least deal with, we needed to have, besides major streets, a more comprehensive, sophisticated transportation system.
Brittany:So you were the chairman, you're the guy, along with a slew of other people who made it happen. Tell us the history of how Prop 400 came to be and passed.
Martin:The situation about growth. How do you handle growth in Maricopa County was actually done intentionally. And I know that there are people that still believe, well, we just sort of lucked into it or what have you, but this was all done intentionally and a group of people and I did previously mentioned some names. The majority leader, Burton Barr, yours truly, a guy named Keith Turley, who was chairman of the board of Pinnacle West and many others, realized that we needed to do something to develop and ultimately to fund the transportation system, but we had nothing but a little gas tax. I honestly can't remember what it was, but my guess is 6 or 7 cents. That was used for highways and then the cities had some transportation monies for their major streets. There was a big issue of connectivity between Glendale and Phoenix and the East Valley and the West Valley and all kinds of issues. But the bottom line is we were starting almost from scratch. The intelligence of people from ADOT, from Maricopa Transportation, from the individual cities, design on a piece of paper, on a map, if you will, what looked like a transportation system. But it wasn't finally approved because we really didn't have any money to put out there. Then we grappled with the issue of money. How do you fund it? Normally transportation was funded by something related to the cars, like gas tax. But we collectively reached for the stars, so to speak, and said, let's do a half cent sales tax on our then fairly robust economy. That was a good idea, but nobody at the legislature in the state was willing to say half cent sales tax in perpetuity forever and ever. That just wasn't going to go.
Juliana:So, Marty, we know we needed to fund transportation somehow, so how did Prop 400 become a regional tax instead of a state tax?
Martin:Why did we get to Maricopa County and not to the state of Arizona? Or Maricopa County and not to other counties? The answer is clearly the population projections and the need for transportation services was within Maricopa County. And the question is who is going to call the election? We know now that it wasn't going to be the Arizona legislature or individual cities could not really call the election and then we'd have 20 some cities with different elections. So, it was turned over legislatively to Maricopa County and they ultimately made a decision to call the election. They had to make a decision. I mean, this just didn't get directed. They had to actually go through a political process to make the decision. And they did. And then we knew that we needed, as a community to advocate for this money because it had never been offered as an issue before or as a new, if you will, tax, and so we had to explain it. And the explaining was not just about the money. The explaining was how do the East Valley and the West Valley and Phoenix and South Phoenix and the areas of this vast metropolis, Maricopa County, going to get along? Who's going to get the roads first and the freeways and light rail? There were all kinds of information that was necessary and that really what the campaign did to put together a, we hoped, coherent plan to the voters who ultimately had to prove the first half cent sales tax.
Juliana:It's really hard to imagine the Valley with no freeways. So we know that this Proposition 400 is important, but for somebody who might not understand it, why is the proposition 400 important?
Martin:Well, Proposition 400 is important because it is the basis on which we fund our transportation system. And 40 years ago, we envisioned a transportation system. There was a set of lines on a so-called map. But ultimately these roadway segments, part of I-10, 101, 202, I could go on and explain the details, needed to be approved by appropriate bodies. In some cases, they're incorporated as with federal programs, like I-10 is in large measure federal. But the 51, as an example, turned out to be a local street taking us from the south to the north and north to the south and then the individual freeways that are now called 101, which was the loop around the community and 202, which was leaning towards East Valley. And the 303, which is now north and west and those segments needed to be developed by the appropriate agencies and that was an interesting process over the last 40 years because the appropriate agencies are number one, the cities, they have a vested interest and Maricopa County. They have a big interest. But we created, Brittany, Valley, Metro, and all of a sudden, we had another entity, and then MAG, their level of sophistication grew as well, because MAG, an amalgamation of representatives from all the cities and the counties, And other representatives had to agree on certain aspects of the program, which would then, we'd have the funding authorized and that's the way it all came down. I got to say last year when the legislature went through this process of making a determination about calling the election. Senate Bill 1102, as I recall, was the final bill. It was interesting that Maricopa County agreed on a comprehensive system, 100%. I mean, there really were the votes from all the cities, county representatives, Valley Metro representatives, and we had a comprehensive plan that was voted on by elected officials and appointed officials, if you will, and there was 100 percent agreement. Which when we went to the legislature, they first of all didn't believe it because our history had been very divided geographically and also who's going to get there’s first, from a timing standpoint and the economic justification for it. But I'm pleased to say that MAG voted unanimously for the comprehensive transportation system, including light rail.
Brittany:Marty you touched on how the freeway system in Prop 400 has really expanded the growth of the Valley. How did Prop 400, with the inclusion of Valley Metro, change the transportation system and public transit?
Martin:Well, Brittany, we have to appreciate the fact that some of us have been around for, you know, four or five decades obviously as kids a long time ago and now a little older, but many people are either new to the Valley or they were born, here or in this area. And it's hard to appreciate and believe, but it's true. We didn't have anything officially as a freeway. We had zero light rail. We had a fledgling bus system. So, it grew up over the decades because of one, analysis of what were the population, projections and what was the growth going to be. But if you look around the Valley and you go back to. I'm going to pick on some people like Mayor Scruggs from the West Valley. She was a very positive force from the west side. She would tell us how important it is to generate the funds and fund the system that was in the West Valley. But then on the East Valley, you had before Mayor Giles, you had many other mayors, Scott Smith being one, but then there were many others before that. Who advocated for, from a Mesa standpoint and an East Valley standpoint. They wanted their systems funded as early as possible. And then we had these growing cities like Gilbert. It was a small peapod compared to what it is today. And Chandler and even Apache Junction. I mean, we could go on and on with the elected representatives and the appointed representatives that participated. But they were all of good spirit and good heart, but they really were geographically based except for a few of us who are trying to look at the whole county and the individual advocates for geography, for obviously putting down transportation, which it was clear would generate economic activity and economic development in their region. And we're talking about 40 years. I'm glad we've lived through that 40 years, and as I said, MAG's vote, a year ago on a comprehensive transportation system that was unanimous. Unbelievable. Very heartwarming and really good for the economy of Arizona.
Juliana:So you touched on this a little bit, but how important is it to keep supporting transit ballot initiatives for future generations?
Martin:Well, first of all, let me tell you how disappointed I am in certain members and our Arizona legislature for seemingly disaggregating light rail and transit from freeways, major streets, that actually is naive. And they will rue the day as it relates to the economy that they did that. But we, the citizens that think we have the big picture, will overcome their objections to light rail. A comprehensive system is necessary now, but I do appreciate the fact that when we started, we didn't have, other than major roads, you know, Central Avenue and 15th Avenue and those kinds of things. We didn't have a freeway. So I can appreciate starting with something that was called a freeway. And by the way, we had limited dollars even though there were plenty of it. There was a lot of money coming in from the half cent sales tax. But when you started calculating what we call lane miles, which are literally miles of lanes, you could only start these freeways with a couple of lanes because you only had so much money to expend and we didn't have any money for light rail until we created from whole cloth, a light rail system that integrated into the freeway system and there were tough geographical decisions, technical decisions and others to be made, but ultimately, The systems were, and of course they are now, integrated and they're integrated to the point where just a short while ago, light rail was announced and then implemented over the freeway, I-17 to Metro Center. And if you figure that out, that actually from the west side connects going back through Phoenix and Tempe and Mesa all the way to East Mesa. And along the way, you pick up the airport, downtown Phoenix and on and on. There is an integration with light rail. And with major freeways and with major streets now and with the bus system. And it's so sophisticated that, you know, Valley Metro Rail and transportation has their own app, which is very usable and very detailed.
Brittany:Marty, you've said it, you've seen transportation grow over many decades. How does it feel to see how far it's come?
Martin:It, over the long haul feels good generally, but I gotta go back over the years and tell you that we had significant opposition starting from the beginning. Because we had to create the understanding and the concept and then throughout the process, and it's easy to research this, but I'll give you the general. When we started moving on light rail, for example, we had really serious opposition and Mary Peters, who is the former secretary of transportation, but really the former head of ADOT and a real professional, but local person and I, we chaired various committees and we were advocating to move forward when we had a number of individuals and groups who were advocating to move backwards. So it feels really good, but, you know, that's because we finished our Super Bowl at least at this point, but there's another year the reason I say that is this has been and will continue to be a continuous process and there have to be many people, elected officials, appointed officials, economic groups, you name it, who need to continually come together And continually make the case because the case, gets more sophisticated as time goes on.
Juliana:Sophisticated is right, but there's one thing we've seen and it's that with transportation comes economic development and you seem to know this better than anyone.
Martin:Let me describe one really positive example, and that is the inclusion and the decision by Taiwan Semiconductor maybe the largest chip manufacturer in the world to come to America and then to come to Phoenix, Arizona. And when I was invited to meet with them in the early stages as they were contemplating this, here's what they said. We're looking for a place in America that has a transportation system like yours that is usable, that would allow our employees, that would allow our suppliers, that would allow us to function. Transportation was key, but they were also looking for other things like, universities or education institutions that produced technical people and engineers and all kinds of support staff. So we need continued advocacy for the development of our economy an infrastructure that facilitates the continued development of the economy. And by the way, we're in a competitive world, not just a competitive region like the Southwest or in the United States, we're in a competitive world. And so we really have to be on our game and infrastructure generally and transportation is a key to that. So, we have to continually move forward and be really positive about it.
Juliana:Marty, when you talk about transportation infrastructure, you're talking about more than just tracks and trains. There's a lot more to it, right?
Martin:Well, let's drill down a little bit on infrastructure, because infrastructure includes electricity and these new, like Taiwan Semiconductor or data centers or new manufacturing facilities, or expanded facilities like Intel's expansion, they require more and more power supply. So that is an infrastructure issue that, has to be dealt with by the regulators, but more importantly, and as important by the companies like APS and SRP and others that supply the electricity. And that's a big infrastructure issue. Then you have transportation, which we've talked about, but then you have the conditions that we are operating under our life, including air quality. That's a big deal. And a transportation system allows millions and millions of people to move from place to place, to see their families, to go to their jobs to enjoy, you know, a great lifestyle, but it also requires the technology that allows us to keep our air quality up to federal standards and maybe even above. And that is another feature that isn't discussed publicly, that much, but, is huge as we're able to comply with stringent federal air quality standards because of the way we've designed the transportation system.
Brittany:Marty, I want to circle back for a second. You mentioned how important it is to get people to work and school. How important is it that our public transportation system gets people to higher education and drives the economy?
Martin:There's no question in the minds of I think most people that are listening to this podcast that transportation and the infrastructure that Juliana mentioned, these are really important, but there's something else the context in which we're working. We are a Sonoran Desert. If you think about it, we're putting huge populations, huge economic activity on the Sonoran Desert. And it's much different than being in either Los Angeles next to a ocean or Chicago or Boston or New York. This is so unique in the world. There are a few others, but I don't think there's any community, large community that is put, if you will, on a basis of a desert floor and then having to deal with heat and desert issues. That goes transportation, electricity, that goes to the lifestyle that we have created. But yet we're able to accommodate large, fast-growing populations, continually create and stimulate the economy and the new kinds of economy, highly technical and we also are able to enjoy a lifestyle that somehow is the envy of the nation in many respects. Because when you look at the data behind the visitors and the convention activity, people make decisions to come here for the activity of this metropolitan area and the state.
Brittany:I think you've seen it, Marty. Like you mentioned, those big major events. How do you think that the transit network helps with that? We've gotten many Super Bowls, we have the Final Four, we have All Star Games. How important is our network for them to come?
Martin:And let's not World Series.
Brittany:Oh yeah!
Martin:So much of what goes on In the sporting arena is facilitated by fans that use the light rail that use bus or that have cars and vehicles, and find adequate parking in the area of Footprint Center, Chase Field, Arizona State University, State Farm Facility out west. So all of our transportation systems. are mandatory. And I say all of them. I mean really, this is a multimodal exercise. This isn't just freeways. They may be the most visible, and they're probably our greatest investment. But light rail now, and light rail in the future, as well as buses, as well as other technologies that make the system work, are extremely important to keep our good thing going.
Brittany:Awesome! Is there anything else, Marty? Think we touched on everything?
Martin:What we haven't touched on are the people. One, the people that use the system. And, you know, they're just all of us who are getting in our cars or going to walk to light rail or getting our cars and park and then go to light rail, or we're using the bus system. And these people, which is all of us, range from those who are very wealthy and very capable of handling their own transportation throughout an economy that is very diverse. In many different ways, including individuals who don't have as much financial capacity as they would like. But yet we have a transportation system that's accommodating very well and is accommodating the increase in traffic.
Juliana:Transportation is truly for everyone, no matter where you're from, your background, everything.
Martin:Yeah. And the multimodal, I don't know if that's a technical term or not, but what it means is, you know, we're not all just using major streets, or we're not just all using freeways, or buses, or rail systems. We're using a variety of systems and technologies that allow us, for example, to not use the system. Wow, what a thought we now, maybe it's because of the pandemic, maybe it was coming, but we have many people who are choosing because of technology to work from home or work from other remote locations. So they don't necessarily have to go from place to place. They can actually be productive and stay in place. That's also an option and if that could be 100%, then we wouldn't need a car or a bus or light rail, but of course, that's not the way it works. The way it works is, people want to have a variety of choices, geographically speaking, lifestyles, and they're also wanting when it's appropriate to use other kinds of technologies, phones, computers to at least stay in place, stay in their homes and work from homes where that's productive. That's an interesting dilemma. That we're all facing right now, are people going to go back to the office? How many? How much new transportation are they going to need? We don't want to go back to congestion. We have relatively little congestion. On occasion, you know, you have an accident on a freeway, or you have. Something going on, like a Super Bowl or a high class event. Yeah, there's a lot of congestion, but for the most part, you don't hear the word congestion used very much around here. Go to Chicago, Boston, L. A., go anywhere else in the United States, and they not only talk about it, but they spell it. You know what I mean? It is just really a big problem, and people get very frustrated about it. You know, we got problems here, but congestion is not one of them.
Brittany:Marty, I think that's a perfect way to end.
Martin:Glad to do it, and glad to talk about something that I'm passionate about, was fortunate to be in the room as we put these things together, and I would say this. I'd like to encourage a lot of other people to think about what their role is in helping develop our system going forward, whether they're in the legislative arena, or they're tied to MAG, or they're just citizens who say, what can I do to help move this ball forward? We have a campaign that's being formed and a vote in November of 2024 that’s extremely important because a yes on that ballot says we can continue the half cent sales tax, which will bring in billions of dollars, which will be programmed for our needed transportation facilities. However, a no says we're going to run out of money in a year or two and we're stopping, stopping the development of the infrastructure. And the transportation system would be devastating to the economy would be devastating to the millions and millions of people who live around here, if you will, 4-5-6 million people and the many other millions that come to town to enjoy this lifestyle. We've created.
Brittany:As a native Phoenician, it really has been exciting to see the Valley grow and expand in so many ways, including our transportation network.
Juliana:Yeah, Brittany, it's truly hard to believe that there were no freeways at one point, no Valley Metro at all.
Brittany:I'm so glad that this year we have the opportunity to continue our commitment towards the entire transportation network to make sure that future generations like your kids and possibly my kids have a great place to work, live, and thrive as they grow older.
Juliana:Exactly we're helping build a transportation system for future generations.
Brittany:And speaking of building a transportation system, Julianna, I have been so lucky to be on the podcast for 30 plus episodes with our riders, letting our Valley know about everything that Valley Metro does. And I am so thankful to be a part of their lives. But now I have to take some time for myself and step back into a new role at Valley Metro and I'll be stepping away from the podcast. But I know that everyone who's going to be listening to future episodes will learn so much about Valley Metro, the Valley, and how they all connect through Storylines.
Juliana:Brittany, I've been so fortunate to co-host this podcast with you since I've started at Valley Metro and I've learned so much. I'm sad to see you go, but I'm also happy that you're staying with the agency, so we're not done with you yet.
Brittany:You heard it here everybody, stay tuned, there's plenty more episodes of Storylines coming your way. I know we have a lot of exciting things happening at the agency to talk about, and Juliana is going to make sure you know all about it. So, for the last time, for Valley Metro, I'm Brittany Hoffman,
Juliana:I'm Julianna.
Brittany:Thanks for riding with us.
Juliana:We'll meet you at the next stop.
Brittany:Storylines is produced by Alex Tsotsos and Dane Ryals. Peter Corkery is the executive producer. For Juliana Vasquez-Keating, I'm Brittany Hoffman. Thanks for listening.
